I have always wanted to see a weapon mastery/proficiency added into majormud.
I think on top of the "quick and deadly" system, there should be the ability to be "proficient" with a type of weapon.
Ok Great, now you are Quick and Deadly with all weapons in and around speed group 1500, what next? You can learn to be proficient with THAT weapon.
A rough draft concept would be to make it a monster based system where the amount of monster kills figure into your ability growth with the weapon.
Example:
If you pick up a new weapon, the starsteel scimitar, at base, you will be at 0% efficiency with the weapon.
The more kills you get with the weapon "actually kills while typing "A (monster name)" and getting exp. (not while just HOLDING the weapon and room spelling) Your profiency moves up.
I think once you hit 10,000 monster kills on a certain weapon you will be master proficiency.
Spreading out the bonuses to the weapon up through the % of proficiency.
as in:
2000 Kills (20% proficiency)
+1 max dmg +1 accuracy +1 crits
4000 kills (40%)
+2 MAx DMG +2 accuracy +2 crits
6000 kills (60%)
+3 Max dmg +4 accuracy +3 crits
8000 kills (80%)
+4 max dmg +8 accuracy +4 crits
10,000 kills (100%)
+6 max damage +10 accuracy +5 crits
(only reason i made it +6 max dmg because if i remember, 1 point of max dmg is only .5 minimum crit damage. so i made it 6 so it would be an even +3, also a little extra bonus for making it to mastery)
You can do it either two ways.
One, add a "specialist or Proficiency Expert" Shop to Silvermere. You have to go and pay to start your
proficiency training every 20% (just like leveling your character)
Or just make each 20% - 100% and attach a "title" like "novice" then finally "master"
so no levels after "master".. Only being able to be proficient in 1 weapon at a time
or multiple weapons at once.
Or two, you can be as proficient in as many weapons as you want, without training it.
when you would type:
[HP=777]: WPRO
Weapons proficiency List
starsteel scimitar - adept - [69%]
flametongue - Master - [100%]
mace - novice - [09%]
etc..
But the issue is, UNTIL you MASTER a weapon. each kill you get with ANOTHER weapon,
removes a kill from the weapon you are no longer useing(only if NOT mastered)
So my "mace" proficiency at 9% would eventually be gone after 900 monster kills.
since it hasn't been mastered.
this is all rough draft idea and could use some tweaking but i think it definately adds to the gameplay options of advancement, and that is what keeps people playing, the ability to improve even if its not levels.
basically its a fun way to add "more ways to level" in the game without actually "leveling"
I also think the same could be done for "SPELLS" to create a "spell" proficiency list.
We could always move the max monsters from 10,000 to 100,000 monsters.
or even make the weapons proficiency mastery HIGHER.
Make the bonuses +10 max dmg +10 accuracy, +10 crits. and make it 1,000,000 monsters for Mastery.
and instead of every 20%, make it level every 10%
a +1 bonus to all every 100,000 monsters while equipping the one weapon.
*And as an added bonus.
*If you LEVEL while holding the weapon of your choice, youll get like a bonus random 1-5% to weapon proficiency.
Tell me what you guys think of this, I think it adds to the "room to grow" in mud, adds more options.
makes for more "goals" to achieve. makes people want to play :)
Still rough draft though. But i want your opinions.
(it should also be a requirement to be Q&D with a weapon BEFORE you can even start training with it in mastery)
Like the idea, but would prefer to have each level of proficiency gained via a quest from a weapon trainer rather than just a monster grind.
The reward for mastering a weapon should also depend on the class and type of weapon. A ninja mastering a katana will get a massive bonus, a paly mastering a katana gets a small bonus.
Good idea there :)
What you are talking about Kalus, is far too complicated to impliment into the game.
That would mean there would need to be flags set for each and every single weapon in the game. That would take literally months of straight programming to impliment and is just a waste of time flat out.
It's a "neat" idea yeah. But it is no different then mine. The monster grind is the same concept of gaining levels for your character except your gaining levels for your WP(weapon proficiency). The idea that it does not matter the weapon you use, is that if you use it long enough you will become proficient with THAT weapon type.
It is also kind of prejudice to say that a ninja can be more proficient with a katana then a paladin.
Im insulted ;)
(also, i can see the quest idea being implimented for SPECIAL Weapons, rare lim 1 items or 10th and 5th quest weapons and adding a bigger bonus for being proficient iwth them, maybe double)
Actually I have been working on this type of thing for a while in the development section. It was a revision of the weapon skills post I made in the idea section a long time ago which was way to complex. Your idea is a bit different then the one I was looking at trying to push through. Starting with using grouped weapon types to make the lists smaller (I.e broadsword, knife, scimatar... rather then each weapon.) The other portion that is really different is that I was looking at setting an exp difficulty setting for each type so you'd have say a weapon with a 10% exp difficulty it would only draw 10% of a Mobs exp value when killed. That exp value would then drive the system unlocking the weapon type mastery levels.
The big reason for not using a per kill counter to drive the system is that you could easily sit in a room and just kill rats all day.
Other then that the systems rewards are similar. However I thought about even making possible to unlock new hitspells and stuff like that for certain magical weapons too. I.e you could have a secondary group such as minor fire magic sword type. Then when you reach say lvl two you get an upgraded hitspell that replaces the default one.
Quote from: SluTFisHy on Jan 07, 2010, 10:46 AM
What you are talking about Kalus, is far too complicated to impliment into the game.
That would mean there would need to be flags set for each and every single weapon in the game. That would take literally months of straight programming to impliment and is just a waste of time flat out.
It's a "neat" idea yeah. But it is no different then mine. The monster grind is the same concept of gaining levels for your character except your gaining levels for your WP(weapon proficiency). The idea that it does not matter the weapon you use, is that if you use it long enough you will become proficient with THAT weapon type.
It is also kind of prejudice to say that a ninja can be more proficient with a katana then a paladin.
Obviously it wouldn't be done per individual weapons but per weapon group.
You don't think a ninja would be able to master a katana better than a paladin? Or a cleric master a mace better than a ninja? Or a mage master a staff better than a warrior? I do.
I'm all for adding more quests to the game. Setting your script and leaving your character for a couple of days to come back and have mastered the weapon proficiency sounds better to you than having to complete a series of quests to master it?
I think your ideas are great crazy animal.
I think with combining the two concepts we can make (captain planet!) a great idea come to life ;)
With your EXP % value for weapons could be easier applied to classes.
That way (mr kalus and his prejudice fucking ninja/katana concept can be happy) a ninja can get +15% proficiency on ninja weapons (katana, sai's, nanchaku etc)
Paladins on longblades
thieves on daggers n shortblades etc.
But i still think it should be a seperate system that registers the weapon under then adding this to each weapon in particular.
I think it should be a seperate system that applies the bonus to the player when weilding the weapon and not to the weapon itself. That way we are not having to add flags to every single weapon in the game.
Concept thus far:
Weapons proficiency will have levels.
10 levels to master a weapon.
(I still think un-mastered weapons should lose exp % when not equipped)
10-15% of monster exp (also based on character bonus) added to wpn proficiency.
ONLY DEBATE:
Is that My concept of making the weapon a certain amount of KILLS to level
applies to a few concepts.
1. You learn how to use a weapon the more you use it.
2. It would better differenciate between player levels
EXAMPLE: If all weapons took 500mil to master. Then WTF is a level 5 gonna do?
******** It makes more sense to make it a round number of kills because, if you want
******** to spend the time at low level killing a shitload of monsters to be proficient
******** you still have the opportunity at any level.
******** Waiting for EXP means your gonna be a guaranteed 50 before you master shit.
******** UNLESS you want to go though the game and add LEVEL EXP TO EACH* AND* EVERY* WEAPON*
******** Then go ahead and be my guest, i think it makes more sense and is alot easier.
(i said 500mil to master, because if you make mastering too easy, a level 60 is gonna master a weapon in 1 night of scripting, kind of boring)
(making it 250,000 monsters. scripting salamanders you would need to make 375 mil worth of kills at salamanders before you master a weapon-or-25 mil scripting the cave worm)
BUT... Im down for it all :)
I think the system should work like this.
You equip an item.
It saves to your WPRO (weapon proficiency list)
Then adds a Monster kill value to the weapon by memory in the list.
I think you should only be able to master as many weapons as your combat ranking (combat 1,2,3,4,5) at a time.
To unmaster a weapon you should be able to goto the Weapons proficiency trainer and "unlearn" a mastery.
Example again.
**************************************************************
Joe's Crab shack
Obvious Exits: NONE!
[HP=454]: wpro
Weapon Proficiency List
flametongue - master - [100%]
mace - novice - [06%]
Joe's Crab shack
Obvious Exits: NONE!
[HP=454]:ar star
You are now weilding starsteel scimitar!
You are extremely quick and deadly with this weapon!
[HP=454]: wpro
Weapon Proficiency List
flametongue - master - [100%]
mace - novice - [06%]
starsteel scimitar - novice - [00%]
Joe's Crab Shack
Obvious Exits: NONE!
[HP=454]:
***************************************************************
Quote from: kalus on Jan 07, 2010, 09:11 PM
Obviously it wouldn't be done per individual weapons but per weapon group.
You don't think a ninja would be able to master a katana better than a paladin? Or a cleric master a mace better than a ninja? Or a mage master a staff better than a warrior? I do.
I'm all for adding more quests to the game. Setting your script and leaving your character for a couple of days to come back and have mastered the weapon proficiency sounds better to you than having to complete a series of quests to master it?
Kalus, yes quests can be fun. But the point of this is to not make it to where people can just "set a script for the night" and wake up mastered. That is stupid.
If you have been Reading* this forum. I already stated quests can be fun for specialized weapons like quest weapons and limited weapons and give them bigger bonuses why not.
please kalus, dont dip your finger in the mustard if you cant ketchup.
Quote from: SluTFisHy on Jan 07, 2010, 09:49 PM
Kalus, yes quests can be fun. But the point of this is to not make it to where people can just "set a script for the night" and wake up mastered. That is stupid.
If you have been Reading* this forum. I already stated quests can be fun for specialized weapons like quest weapons and limited weapons and give them bigger bonuses why not.
please kalus, dont dip your finger in the mustard if you cant ketchup.
Slut. You ok buddy? No-one is allowed to post their feedback to your ideas? Get your head out of your ass.
In my OPINION, nothing should be added which encourages scripting/grinding. If you could level your character 100% through quests it would be preferable to scripting. Adding another component to the game which encourages scripting for days, weeks, months, an eternity is a backwards step.
Your idea is straight out of WOW anyway, but in WOW, you can't script. Mud is different. Come up with your own ideas.
Quote from: kalus on Jan 07, 2010, 10:31 PM
Slut. You ok buddy? No-one is allowed to post their feedback to your ideas? Get your head out of your ass.
In my OPINION, nothing should be added which encourages scripting/grinding. If you could level your character 100% through quests it would be preferable to scripting. Adding another component to the game which encourages scripting for days, weeks, months, an eternity is a backwards step.
Your idea is straight out of WOW anyway, but in WOW, you can't script. Mud is different. Come up with your own ideas.
For one the idea IS* mine. I never play or have EVER played wow.
And two, please stop diverting the point of this forum.
Thank you I love my ideas too... I got a big ego and always love complements :)
I can't say I've ever played wow either but that's not what this thread is about. Lets try to keep it semi on topic because I think its a worthwhile thread to have going on.
Using weapons group types have an exp table makes it possible to allow each class to add or subtract from the weapons exp table. Ie. clerics might be better at using say maces then warhammers... This opens up room to create subclasses as off-brances from the main classes offered in the game. It also creates a seperation between the classes. Its a good thing in the long run.
There can be multiple types of a single weapon group if anyone has studied the evolution of say swords you'll note there are different types of broadswords with in the broadsword family. This system makes it possible then to represent the difference between those types while allowing gaps in power at least in magical weapons to be crossed and compensated between types. While the types could represent level brackets.
Yes the point is that with exp driving the system the gain need per level mastery will go up as well so scripting will not be your greatest mastery fix. The big thing is is the system needs to work with both ways of playing. So weapon mastery exp gaint would also need to be offered via quests.
One more thing. I'm not a big script fan of the current level grind. So I would really like to work out a way to limit weapon mastery per monster type. I think players are better off when they are able to move on from script spot to script spot. So I think there should be a limit to how many mobs of one type count toward mastering a weapon mastery level. As this would give an advantage to the player that actually plays just a little every now and then rather then the player that just scripts for months on end.
Quote from: kalus on Jan 07, 2010, 10:31 PM
In my OPINION, nothing should be added which encourages scripting/grinding. If you could level your character 100% through quests it would be preferable to scripting. Adding another component to the game which encourages scripting for days, weeks, months, an eternity is a backwards step.
Preach on Brother Kalus! I agree.
making quests the ONLY source of leveling the weapon proficiency is far too limiting.
characters can gain exp VIA quest AND monster grinding.
Applying quests to AID in your "weapon proficiency leveling" is far more ideal then making it your only source.
That is my opinion.
Quote from: SluTFisHy on Jan 07, 2010, 09:45 PM
I think you should only be able to master as many weapons as your combat ranking (combat 1,2,3,4,5) at a time.
Because tanks don't get enough advantages already you want to make warriors & witchunters able to master 4 to 5 weapons at a time while limiting the stealth chars to 1 to 3? Explain how you think that even remotely balances a game that already is horribly out of balance in favor of the plate classes?
I dont understand how the plate class and warrior classes are overpowered in anyway.
Personally, other then greater mud, in normal mud. Plate wearers have never been overpowered to me.
at least when it comes to PVP.
And two, it only makes sense for a "combat fighter" to be specialized in more weapons then a spellcaster type.
Kind of common sense there.
But in all actuality it does not make a difference to me, I like the idea however it's pieced together.
And by the way, this was also a discussion for spellcasters to "specialize" in spells also.
instead of +10 max damage they can get +10% to spell damage or more.
kind of makes more sense that way. spellcasters will obviously have a seperate proficiency system. basing it off their
spell caster type "mage 3"
no spellcaster typically uses more then 3 combat spells at any certain level anyway. Usually the higher level you get, you stop using spells and move to the higher level ones.
Quote from: SluTFisHy on Jan 10, 2010, 02:09 AM
I dont understand how the plate class and warrior classes are overpowered in anyway.
Personally, other then greater mud, in normal mud. Plate wearers have never been overpowered to me.
at least when it comes to PVP.
And two, it only makes sense for a "combat fighter" to be specialized in more weapons then a spellcaster type.
Kind of common sense there.
But in all actuality it does not make a difference to me, I like the idea however it's pieced together.
I didn't say spellcasters, I said stealth classes. I would also point out that mystics, which are also on the high side of overpowered, would be the first to master their "end game" weapon since it is always their feet past level oh.. 20ish.
I personally don't see a reason to limit how many weapons you can master. Lets face the big fact of any weapon you do master will take time and effort to master. And with the current level dead-ends and methods of picking weapons that are best for your current level bracket. Chances are that you will only fully master 1 or 2 weapons and then have a handful more that you have become fairly proficient in.
It's going to be that way with any character that does swing a weapon. And in the natural order of play characters that rely less on their weapons for kills will automaticly have less weapons that they fully master.
As for mystics I have other ideas for them and don't plan on counting their hands and feet as actual weapons.
The mystics feet are not a weapon Item.
Mystics feet are alreay mastered they should not be able to get a weapon proficiency on them obviously since
mystics foot damage constantly goes up anyway.
Quote from: SluTFisHy on Jan 11, 2010, 09:18 PM
The mystics feet are not a weapon Item.
Mystics feet are alreay mastered they should not be able to get a weapon proficiency on them obviously since
mystics foot damage constantly goes up anyway.
I do think they should be able to get proficiencies in the weapons they can eq like staffs and daggers. Just not in body parts.
Quote from: Gardner Denver on Jan 12, 2010, 09:19 AM
Hater
LOL can't say I'm hating I'd just much rather see their martial arts abilities be revamped then bend them to work with a system that isn't really developed for their type of combat.
The concept is fine, the numbers require some tuning. 720 combat rounds per/hr. At that rate you'd simply be a master the next morning after each of the what 5..6 times you change weapons in your character's life? Maybe something more like 20,000+(MinLVL*2,000). It also might be worthwhile to make certain boss fights increase your weapon skill more than a regular fight, or even require X boss kills to achieve certain levels of proficiency.
Another concept maybe using the exp aquired with the weapon equiped. Take the min lvl of the item and the players chart a base chart, or maybe even n inverted chart and require 2 levels of exp per level of proficiency.
I felt in reg mud that there was a new weapon equiped disadvantage maybe that was not real.
I like this idea if you make it more simple, that you just get better using the current weapon, and it doesnt take very long to make it for a small bonus, as you get better with that 1 weapon, you loose the bonus from the previous weapon.
So its just a bonus for what ever weapon u have on at the time, and if u switch you start to remove the bonus and apply it to the next one.
Feel bad that I let this topic die down.
Under the system I'm working on you would only get a portion of the exp from a kill so your able to deal with those larger exp/hr rates. It's a level based system so you get small bonuses all the way up the advancement tree it's done that way so players can watch their characters grow. Each weapon type would have its base exp difficulty ie percentage of the kill earned and a individual micro balance exp difficulty. I definitely agree the numbers need to be looked at though. Part of it is focuses heavily on finding a way to create a reason for the different attack messages like slash vs thrust and allow the different types attacks to have varying effects on speed, accuracy, energy use, and damage. Rather then relying on random rolls I'd like to enable players to create their own attack patterns so they might be better able to personalize their character based on what they think is the best attack strategy. such as the differences between slash, slash, thrust vs slash, cleave, thrust vs set random default. It's always seemed to be you have two types of mmuders ones that like the ability to tweak their characters and try to perfect their strategy and those who just enjoy the ease of hack and slash basics. The idea needs to satisfy both types of players.
Secondary topic
I'm thinking about adding in a quest system for the non-magic users to it that would let you spend off some of those excess cps points for more specialized combat training you could call this combat proficiency. These would be under a system of combat move points to give them a limited construct similar to how mana regulates magic use and keeps it's usage fair. It's moves would be specialized to the class and cover the 4 non-magic classes witchunters, warriors, ninjas, and thieves. It would work of of the higher the combat the more cm points the class gets. It would be balanced on the higher combat maneuvers using more points though.
I can't remember who told me of the idea originally but it's somewhere in this idea section that he played a game where you had combat stances. I liked the idea but didn't really have a use for it. So one part of this would be different stances would enhance different combat aspects like defense or attack or dodge or critting . I'm also looking at it as a means to pull of the fair and balanced way to have things like circle attacks and mid-round back-stabs. While keeping it fair so that their use doesn't dominate the game.
One of the areas I'd really like to give thought to in pulling this off is the ability to add combat skills for the odd-ball characters that generally lose out. Like halfling warriors, witchunters or neko warriors, and witchunters... There is very little content that treats them from the perspective of their strange skill bases and I see this as a way to make those strange combos more play-able too.
I also see this if it happens early enough of the game as a way to slow players from hitting their stat maxes at least in these 4 classes. and will be looking at ways to implement similar magical proficiency for the other classes.
Quote from: SluTFisHy on Jan 11, 2010, 09:18 PM
The mystics feet are not a weapon Item.
Mystics feet are alreay mastered they should not be able to get a weapon proficiency on them obviously since
mystics foot damage constantly goes up anyway.
The above is false. A mystics feet damage does not improve with levels. It only improves with items or stats.
Quote from: pentagruel on Sep 20, 2010, 01:09 PM
The above is false. A mystics feet damage does not improve with levels. It only improves with items or stats.
It improves through CP usage.. Which are gained by levels... I.e Levels...