We're at a fork in the road

[Vitoc]

I'm not sure if everyone is up to date on what's going on, but I figured I'd provide my take on what's happening.

A group of Sysops and loyal MajorMUD fans lead by Mike from Entconn are abandoning our effort and frantically scrounging together money to put together an offer to purchase Major MUD from Metro themselves.  I find it odd they waited until GreaterMUD was within just months of release before deciding to start their movement, but what can I do, right?

So the way I see it our community has two options:

The first option is what I've been suggesting and working towards for the last 3 and a half years.  We finish work on the new engine which is a faithful recreation of the Major MUD engine written in a modern language that's easy to maintain, support, and update.  I hope I've already proven my dedication by getting the new engine to where it's at now.  Having written it, I already know the code like the back of my hand, and having so much invested into it I would like nothing more than to see this through until the end.  I see version 1.0 being released within the next 6 months, and beyond that the sky is the limit with this new engine.  We have a million different ways we can easily go with this new engine; web integration, interactive silverlight pages, competitions (arena, pvp, etc.) with leaderboards and stats visible via the web, custom quests (where someone is actually controlling mobs), server-side scripting (you won't need Mega to run 24/7), you name it, it's possible with this engine.  Not only that but we have our own lightweight telnet server that we have complete control over which will is also what keeps our price so low.  As I've mentioned several times already the hard work is already done, all we need is the right to use the content.

The second option IMO is a desparate and misguided attempt which is misleading people into believing that is what's best for the community.  So after all the those poor sysops and fans donate their hard earned cash to that effort, and assuming they've collected enough to purchase MajorMUD from Metro, what comes next?  I'll tell you what comes next.  More of the same.  The first major challenge will be finding one or more competent c/c++ developers willing to work on the ancient and buggy codebase that is MajorMUD.  Of course they can't afford to pay a competent c/c++ developer (especially after all their money just went to buy everything from Metro) so they're going to have to find someone willing to do it out of the love of the game and the kindness of their heart.  That means that developer will have to have a day job and they'll only be able to work on it on nights and weekends.  But development is slow in c/c++ and the community will be lucky to see one update every month or so, and it will quickly turn into exactly where we were at just a couple years ago; limited visible progress, if any.  This doesn't even account for the ramp up period for the developer to learn how the project is organized and the flow of the application, so it would be at least a couple months before we start seeing any meaningful updates (which is probably overly optimistic).  Oh and let's not forget MajorMUD uses betrieve for it's datastore which was great... back in the 90's.  If all that weren't bad enough, the MajorMUD codebase is built on top of WorldGroup.  WorldGroup is entirely too much software to run a game like MajorMUD.  All a text-based game like this needs is a quick and efficient ansi-capable telnet server with a few basic administrative tools (account management, ip-banning, etc.) and a few global commands (paging, who's online, etc.).  Keep in mind, they're purchasing the rights to MajorMUD, but they won't be buying the rights to WorldGroup, so nothing will change in that department.  Sysops will still be required to pay for WG and they'll still be forced to rely on Metro for support.  Web integration?  Forget it.  Silverlight?  Forget it.  But all is not lost.  In a few years they will come to the realization they're going to have to do a complete rewrite in a more modern managed language to allow such features.  "Wait... complete rewrite?  Didn't someone already do that a few years ago?"

The second choice is just not a smart decision.

[ghaleon]

I vote for the second choice. There is a higher probability of source code leak that way

[The Crazy Animal]

I still go for the first option...

The only way the 2nd option turns out well is if they do something like give it out as opensource but lets face it if theres people paying cash to by something what are the chances.

[banjaxster]

Hello,
With your very fine greatermud and the possibility of MMUD being bought from Metro and revamped?? Why can't we have both?
I run 2 MMud boards and have way to much money invested in just throwing it away.
I will buy your GreaterMud when it is available and run both,thus letting players have a choice,I am sure they will play both also.
Instead of dividing into two separate camps we should be working together to move mud forward after all the years of Metro's reign of lies,bad coding,and frustration.
Your telnet engine I am sure is way superior to worldgroup/mmud and like you said will have unlimited possibilities so keep going on the development,I look forward to purchasing it!
These developments can bring MUD back from the brink of extinction.

[Vitoc]

I vote for the second choice. There is a higher probability of source code leak that way

Which would probably be the absolute worst case scenario for everyone.

The thing that's held us together for so long is the fact every player from every realm can relate with one another.  If every realm were running with different flavors of engines and different sets of content, nobody would care about anyone else's realms and there'd be no sense of community whatsoever.  Not to mention, if the code were leaked the game would be completely free, so everybody would be running their own realms and nobody would want to play on anybody else's server because they felt theirs was better.

[grunyo]

People have known for years that the MajorMUD engine is a load of crap. Let's face it. It's junk. It's barely above garbage.

You're right, Vitoc. The only way that they (we) can keep the game viable is with an entire rewrite. Why bother? You're already working on it. Why can't we just combine the content with the engine and package it together. I don't have the time to commit to it. I wish I did.

What I want is a complete overhaul on the community, itself. I wish we could replace all of the systems that run the software, legit or not, with your server structure and game engine. They could have both MajorMUD content and GreaterMUD content to choose from. Why can't the various groups all just work together?

Above all of that, I think it's damned arrogant of Metro to ask for money for the rights to MajorMUD after the years of inactivity. They should just declare it abadonware, and get it over with. I've given Mike my support in the co-op with the hope of keeping the game around, but if Metro is going to start a bidding war between interested groups then I wash my hands of the whole deal.

[Vitoc]

Hello,
With your very fine greatermud and the possibility of MMUD being bought from Metro and revamped?? Why can't we have both?
I run 2 MMud boards and have way to much money invested in just throwing it away.
I will buy your GreaterMud when it is available and run both,thus letting players have a choice,I am sure they will play both also.
Instead of dividing into two separate camps we should be working together to move mud forward after all the years of Metro's reign of lies,bad coding,and frustration.
Your telnet engine I am sure is way superior to worldgroup/mmud and like you said will have unlimited possibilities so keep going on the development,I look forward to purchasing it!
These developments can bring MUD back from the brink of extinction.

I get mad when I think about all the sysops pooling their money to hand over to Metro for that pile of crap they call a codebase.  They're letting Metro bend them over one last time after already being ignored for years, and they're doing it with a smile on their face.  They are wasting their money based on ignorance.

You guys say you all have too much money invested into MajorMUD to throw it away, but then talk about donating another $200+ each to buy the rights to the code, content, and MajorMUD name.  I contend it would still be cheaper for each of you to just back my effort to buy the rights to the content (I'll pay out of my own pocket) and then just buy a copy of GreaterMUD and TGS when it is complete for $50 (maybe $100 total with Major MUD's content depending on how much Metro asks).  Everybody wins.

I liken MajorMUD to an old motherboard.  Sure it still works (albeit slowly) and you can spend more money trying to find parts that make it work to increase it's lifespan a little longer, but it's going to be more trouble than it's worth in the longrun.  You're better off cutting your losses now and moving forward.

[The Crazy Animal]

I really don't want to get into this conversations but like I was telling Vitoc the other day Http killed the BBS. It was a result of the protocol wars of the early Internet. Which left BBS(s) behind as an antiquated piece of IT history that has little viability in the here and now. 

I don't really want this to sound like a business lesson but all technology assets have a marketable depreciation rate and when that piece of tech starts to cost you more then its current value is worth its time to look at other options. If someone new comes along and buys up that old tech its still not going to change that depreciation curve or where that piece of tech is on it. WG and mmud had a lot of good years but how much more is it going to cost to continue to support those products out of pocket then it is to find a new viable solution that meets your needs. I do feel bad for the sysops that invested a lot of cash into their bbs but sometimes you just have to know when to fold in the cards and save face before taking a loss.

One of the things that hasn't been mentioned here is your not just getting greatermud here your getting a modern telnet engine that can load add on modules just like WG could. However the overhead for these modules is a lot less and they can be integrated into modern IT methods and protocols. This means things like recodes of games like Tradewars, LRD and lots of other old favorites are possible and can be redone better then they were prior too. So to me its really a no brainer in what to support and who to look to for a new hope for an old game and social networking system.

[DeathCow]

GreaterMud facebook app?  Anyone?

[Gardner Denver]

I've kept mostly quiet on this issue so far at least publicly.

I support getting the rights to work on Majormud by any means necessary.  If that means that the co op headed up by Mike at Entconn has to buy the whole shooting match, then so be it.  And to that end, I will contribute some money if needed.

Once the rights are secured, the existing engine needs to be used to start a nice fire in the fireplace.

I will not get behind or be involved in any effort on the part of the co op to upgrade the existing engine.

I will encourage the principals in the TGS/GM project and the principals in Mikes co op to sit down and hammer out a deal that benefits the mud community.  After all, isn't that supposed to be what all of these efforts are about?

I am firmly convinced that TGS/GM Software and MMud content is the direction to follow.  At such time as unique GM content is ready for distribution, sysops can decide for themself which option they wish to go with, or go with both if they want (I'm guessing that would be possible using 2 instances of GM engine) and they will still have access to updates and upgrades from talented content teams supporting both sides.

[The Crazy Animal]

I'll be very blunt I'm only really seeing the sysop purchase as something that will extend the death-throws of the game at this point. Supporting a product like that is going to take a constant cash/time IV and don't see where that will be coming from. Even if its supported via donations that means every time they need to pay a coder to fix something they will be calling around looking for 5, 10, 15 bucks or more just to get some work done to the engine. I'm not even mentioning the content side of this. On the legality side ya it would be nice to own the rights to it but I wouldn't go throwing my money around with out some solid plan in place about what is going to happen after the purchase.

I'm guessing that would be possible using 2 instances of GM engine

Oh ya we have 3 instances running right now... So ya we've already past that limit..

GreaterMud facebook app?  Anyone?

Nothing wrong with that could be the type of thing that shows your characters progress in the realm. I mean hell I logged into the greatermud the otherday from my cellphone. More and more cellphones are getting web access these days so thats the type of thing we should be looking at as well. It would be just as nice to be-able to tweak my script settings or log in and chat for a while that way.

[DeathCow]

Nothing wrong with that could be the type of thing that shows your characters progress in the realm. I mean hell I logged into the greatermud the otherday from my cellphone. More and more cellphones are getting web access these days so thats the type of thing we should be looking at as well. It would be just as nice to be-able to tweak my script settings or log in and chat for a while that way.

Yeah, could have several different ones, or at least different options, one allowing you to simply chat through gossip, or one that emulates your character for you.  There are quite a few online gaming companies that are attempting to expand there user base through these type of applications.  Either way, a facebook application could keep a realm active and help to mitigate some of the late season afk boredom.

[The Crazy Animal]

Yeah, could have several different ones, or at least different options, one allowing you to simply chat through gossip, or one that emulates your character for you.  There are quite a few online gaming companies that are attempting to expand there user base through these type of applications.  Either way, a facebook application could keep a realm active and help to mitigate some of the late season afk boredom.

Exactly the only chance antiquated games such as these have a chance in today's competitive gaming market is by finding new ways to expand their user-base using current tech.. And that's just not going to happen using WG since WG has been locked into a mode of operation that died off with the likes of online services such as prodigy. No matter how much cash gets tossed at it's underlying systems and platform games its not magically make the old tech as good as the new tech that is available to us to use. Really sticking with WG is like competing in the Kentucky Derby with a dead horse at this point.

 

[Colt]

ok, enough of this... I got on the band wagon for Greater Mud because it offered new content. That is what my users have been holloring for and I do not see Major mud doing anything major in that direction. Here we have new coders, new ideas and a lot of new content...

[Vitoc]

GreaterMud facebook app?  Anyone?

I'm more than willing to build features into the engine to make this happen.

Anyone here have the time and the know how to start one?